BONUS! Ballsy Money Real Talk with Bonnie Bajorek Daneker (Joan's Aunt!)

In this episode, Dr. Joan Palmiter Bajorek talks with her aunt Bonnie Bajorek Daneker about careers, money, and the Your AI Roadmap book! They have a fun and candid conversation about money, negotiating worth, and building financial confidence, with practical tools.

"I was delighted. I thought you were ballsy."
"Frank conversations about finances are necessary."
"This book is timely and timeless."

Buy the Book! Your AI Roadmap: Actions to Expand Your Career, Money, and Joy

Connect with Bonnie on LinkedIn
Bonnie B. Daneker founded & leads The Author’s Greenhouse. As a publisher, book coach & working author, she has managed over 100 book-client projects & has written/co-written 16 works including: "It’s in There!" (the story of Prego® spaghetti sauce, featured on Food That Built America®); "The Compassionate Caregiver™" series (featured on Caring.com); "CLIMB: Leading Women in Technology Share Their Journeys to Success" with Women in Technology of Georgia; & "One Man’s Quest To Keep You Safe," used in food engineering classes at The Ohio State University. She was recognized as a “Top Idea Maven” by the Women’s Advantage for 2012-14. A serial entrepreneur, Bonnie holds a BA in Journalism from Ohio State & an MBA in Strategic Planning & Entrepreneurship from Emory University. Bonnie served on the Board of Directors for OSU College of Arts & Sciences Alumni Association, & as President, National Association of Women Business Owners – Atlanta Chapter.

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Who is Joan?

Ranked the #4⁠⁠ in Voice AI Influencer, ⁠⁠Dr. Joan Palmiter Bajorek⁠⁠ is the CEO of ⁠⁠Clarity AI⁠⁠, Founder of ⁠⁠Women in Voice⁠⁠, & Host of ⁠⁠Your AI Roadmap⁠⁠. With a decade in software & AI, she has worked at Nuance, VERSA Agency, & OneReach.ai in data & analysis, product, & digital transformation. She's an investor & technical advisor to startup & enterprise. A CES & VentureBeat speaker & Harvard Business Review published author, she has a PhD & is based in Seattle.

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Hi, my name is Joan Palmiter Bajorek. I'm on a mission to decrease fluffy hype and talk about the people actually building in AI. Anyone can build in AI, including you. Whether you're terrified or excited, there's been no better time than today to dive in. Now is the time to be curious and future -proof your career, and ultimately, your income. This podcast isn't about white dudes patting themselves on the back. This is about you and me. and all the paths into cool projects around the world. So what's next on Your AI Roadmap? Let's figure it out together. You ready? This is Your AI Roadmap, the podcast. Hey folks, today I'm popping in to talk a little bit about the episode. So in this episode, I talk to my aunt Bonnie. I've mentioned this before, My dad has five sisters and two brothers, big Catholic family. And I've heard that Bonnie is one of my aunts that I look most like. I'm so grateful to be... working with Bonnie and learning from her, especially in my book journey. Bonnie is an author herself and also has lots of years in the publishing business. So when I first got my contract from Wiley, I was like, I don't even know how to read this 13 pages of single line spaced, my gosh. And she helped me with the proposal process. She helped me review the contract and ask for more. I got almost everything we asked for actually. And in this conversation, I talked to Bonnie about the content of the book. And I think it's really lovely to hear an aunt and a niece and how you might think about the book and how people of different generations think about money and careers and what we want in this world. All right, you ready? Let's jump into the episode. Hello, hello. Would you mind please introducing yourself? Yes, I am Bonnie Bajorek Daneker I am the founder of The Author's Greenhouse. We are a literary consultancy and transmedia company out of Plano, Texas, which is north of Dallas. And I'm also a working author and a book coach. And I just happen to be your aunt. Yes, my dad has five sisters, two brothers, and Bonnie, I think you're the youngest girl? That's right, okay. Wow, well, thank you so much for joining me on this podcast bonus episode. You helped me with the book in so many different ways behind the scenes. I think reviewing proposals, reviewing outlines, helping me with the contract paperwork, which I didn't even know how to read. 13 pages of fine print. So thank you so much for supporting me. Today we're talking about the actual content of the book, which I'm super, super jazzed about. Can I ask you, what was your first impression of the book, the content overall? My first impression was that I was glad that you were taking such a strong stance on this topic for women in this industry because I have a long history of working within the women in technology framework. I was a project manager years ago. I wrote the flagship book for women in technology called Climb Leading Women in Technology, Share Their Secrets of Success. And I also have been a member of many different women in technology organizations and I haven't to this point in my life had the degree of frank conversations that I think that you are trying to have in this book. So I was delighted. I thought you were you were ballsy, but it was darn time that somebody said this kind of thing for these kinds of topics. thank you. Well, yeah, if anyone knows me, I'm relatively direct person. no, but I think, and I even heard that from Wiley as they were considering which proposals to green light. And they said mine came off as refreshing, quote unquote. And I think that might be because apparently a lot of other books proposed how to climb the ladder effectively. And mine was like, you can opt out. Like there are other routes in defining what success does or doesn't mean to folks. So. actually, another thing that really impressed me about your work is that you said you're not taking any excuses from women. mean, the information is helpful for men too, but you know, we are at a day and age where we have access to so much online through our networks. You know, it's important that we know what we want to pursue, but we really have all the tools out there to go get it. And it's just a matter of making your plan and doing it. Totally, and I think that's one of the reasons I started the book with goals, mindset, like what is the mind clutter that you need to get out of your vocabulary of like, I can't because, or I have been bad at this in the past, therefore it's over. Do know what mean? Like these type of mindsets. Totally, totally, I made a mistake with money or my career and therefore over. Like this catastrophizing. me in this light because they remember a mistake that I made years ago. And I can never undo that, which is totally false. And you were really good to say, try again, start over, clean slate, new game, let's do it. I think if anything, the book like resilience being a key component of this book in several ways. Were there topics in the book or parts of the book that really surprised you? Yes, there were. you know, I'm in the book industry. I've been in publishing for many, many years, which is why I was really excited to bring some of that information to you as a working author in your own right. it was surprising to me that you were so straightforward. And there were times when I was reading your content where I cringed like, I could never say that. And women in my generation wouldn't. Certainly women of my mother's generation wouldn't. But it needed to be said. that's the topic of voice that complements the topic of content. So you address the content very directly. in your voice you were no-nonsense and as I said before, know, really telling people you have no excuses. So it was abrupt for me to have someone come at me like... you you gotta be strong about this. just, you know, don't pussy foot around anymore. Don't push it to the side. This is not going away and you need to know how to deal with it and this is a good starting point for you. So definitely, I mean, I loved that you said it was refreshing because everybody's talking about AI. What is it? What is gonna happen to our workforce? What's gonna happen to our careers, our livelihoods? But you said. you need to put your armor on and go. Fight whatever's gonna fight in a positive way or negative way, but put on your armor and go. Totally, well, AI, AI, AI, I mean, this podcast is literally your AI roadmap. It's also thinking of the societal impacts of we know, we literally, just in this morning, more layoffs coming down the pipeline. But instead of being like, layoffs, anxiety, there's actually actions, there's expansion, there's what can I do, what can the individual do, what can we do in communities and so forth. And I really try to take a friendly tone. I hope. that's the case. I'm curious, would you mind sharing like one example of you were like, she's saying that? Like, is there a, could you give us a concrete example? sure. Let me address what you just said about ways to do it real quick. That was the other thing I really, really loved about this book is, you know, I said, put your armor on, but you gave us the armor. You gave us the exercises. You gave us some examples. You know, it wasn't just your story. It was multiple people's stories. So it was validating every point that you made. And I think that when people read this book, they can self identify with a lot of the different case studies that you presented, a lot of the different examples, because We're multidimensional people and those stories are gonna resonate with us in some way, or form. And so between their stories and the examples, we knew what to do, how to follow those and make it work for us. So the other thing that you asked me about, what made me say like, your financial frankness was something, you know, we always were told don't discuss politics, don't discuss religion, don't discuss money. And I think you had all three of these in here, which was great in a little way. But money, because, you know, women have for so long been like, okay, I'll wait for someone to champion me. I'll wait for someone to tell me I'm going to get a raise. You know, I'll wait for that in your review so I can get money and possibly a promotion, but this is more... You're open, you're laying on the table. This is my financial position now and here's how I got here and here's what I'm gonna do to keep that strong financial position. I'm not relying on one source of revenue. I'm relying on multiple. I'm diversifying to protect myself from risk. I'm including a lot of people in my financial journey so that that will strengthen me if things are slow. You mentioned one of your contracts has taken a minute to close. of us. Right? So what do do instead? There are lots of other ways that you can bring in revenue so you're not waiting on pins and needles and back in that position of, okay, when are they going to pay me? Like, you know, maybe my generation was, right? So you also are really good about saying, this is what I'm worth. So financially, you know, women in our generation, my generation said, okay, I know I'm supposed to look at what the pay range for this role is, but I'm a female, so I probably am not going to get what a guy will get at this role, at this pay scale level. But, you you read these books now that are out, like, women don't ask. And if we don't start asking immediately, you know, five and six promotions down the line, five or six contracts down the line, five or six other opportunities down the line. we are never going to reach our male counterparts, right? Because we're incrementally possibly growing at the same rate. But if we start at a lower starting point than they do, we're going to be exponentially lower than they are, like by the fifth or sixth one. So you brought that out. And while it shocked me at first, I was like, great, do it. We need it. Because it didn't happen in my generation. I'm pretty ballsy myself. I ask for a lot. tell people immediately what my contracts cost, what my hourly rates are, just because I can't afford to have them not see me as a valued commodity. mean, if you want something that's different for me, if you want a pay rate that's different than me, you need to know where I am. So you can go pursue that. And I think that's what you did that, like I said, made me kind of be shocked a little bit, but then so thankful that you were actually doing it. And now I'm used to it. I'm like, okay. And you were consistent through the whole book, which was wonderful. It wasn't like you were shy here and bold here. You were bold across the board because, as I said before, this topic is not going away. And your promise to your reader is to future-proof your income and your career, and you're doing that. Thank you. Well, yeah, you were not the only early reader who was like, are you really gonna share that? There's an octogenarian that messaged me multiple times. He agreed with all my financial advice. Very, very wealthy person. Agreed with it. We talked about, he wanted me to emphasize things for older readers, which I did indeed make changes. That's why I get constructive feedback. But he's like, are you really gonna do that? Some people are gonna attack you. Are you sure you wanna do that? And I'm like. for my target reader, she might not know all this stuff. She may not have that person in her corner. Who else might help her with that? And if I say, here's how to build a beautiful career, know, portfolio of opportunities, but we don't talk about money, like there's a huge missing chunk. And I think in taking care of ourselves, future-proofing our incomes, how we think about our financial houses, especially more and more women that I know who are achieving great things don't have a partner. in their life. So it's really them taking care of themselves or just being stable regardless of a lovely partner in your life. So yeah, I've had positive and negative reactions, but it's a book I wish I'd had even a few years ago to negotiate. was like, when you get to some of these stages, what's on the table? How do you know what to ask for? Like, the biggest negotiation of my life that I was able to close, I was just out of my depth. was like, they asked me to pitch them in the final round And I called one of my mentors, who I call Amir in my book, and I was like, Amir, what do I do? What do I say? And he walked me through his framework of how he does these. And I got very similar to what I asked for. I'm like, thank you. It was very high stakes, but like Bonnie, how else would I have known to ask for some of these things? I completely agree. And that's why it needs to be in your book. And that's why it needs to be stretched and repackaged and your content needs to be appearing in these podcasts, appearing in your newsletters, appearing on your social media because we've got to get used to hearing it and we've got to get used to having these conversations about it. And we've got to get used to having other women give us advice instead of just relying on the men in our lives who may or may not have given us the best advice based on what they knew, right? So we've got to be able to go to resources that we like, and trust. And you're a perfect example of one in their age group who's approaching all these similar problems and who's got the head on their shoulders that can manage that. Thank you. Yeah, well, I mean, it feels so wild, but just a few years ago, I was like, informational coffees, is that allowed? Like, can informational interviews, is that kosher? Like, are we doing that? And like, signing bonuses, when I first heard someone asking for one around me, was like, what's that? Like, tell me more. So readers, this will come out before the book drops, but in my book, I share all of my revenue streams. and I talk about different contract negotiations. As you mentioned, like different advisory fees of helping startups out. There's so many different ways instead of just a full-time contract that we can make money. So there would be, there's I think 57 ideas for income stream expansion. So people are like, I don't even know where to start. They're easy ones, they're more sophisticated ones, but I've done so many, like tutoring to help me pay my grocery bills is an example I have in there. And so just really, I hope to be practical and actionable. I think you might've been one of the early readers who was like, you use the word action too many times. But really, taking those next steps, no, and I don't mean to hit the hammer too hard, but I think being passive in these respects is not gonna serve. So. like I said, for someone else to champion you and you can't wait for like a divine sign as much as we might want that. And I like how you presented all of those different revenue streams. Like you said, there's so many, but some that are like low-hanging fruit, easily attainable, like your example for tutoring. This was a skill you already had. Let's do it. Sign up a couple of students for a couple of hours, and then all of sudden you can pay your grocery bill and your rent maybe. Who knows? So all of us have the opportunity to earn different ways. And I had a woman tell me years ago something that I think is absolutely in line with what you're saying right now. we need to think of ourselves as not boutiques that only sell one thing. We need to think of ourselves as department stores who have multiple things for sale. And we might have a chain of stores, meaning our extended network, where we can offer many, many more things because we have three people and their services and their expertise to offer as a product or service to sell. So what you're saying is it's not just one thing that we have one skill that we have one way to earn money we have a lot of different ways to think about our skills and our expertise and we can make money a lot of different ways. Totally, well, and I think I love that example of the department store and know what we can share. I think on the other side, like Dory Clark, who's an example in my book, as you mentioned, the different case studies of different people's stories to illustrate ideas. She talks about like, we wouldn't just put all of our money in one thing, like our portfolio, you know, where our money sits, but on the other side of how we get the money in, so many people rely on just one source and that diversification on both sides. is a strong recommendation that she has, which I love kind of the perspective of how you think about money in, money around organization and yeah. things are changing in the world of education, now we have financial literacy for grade school children, thinking about how to earn your money, how to save your money, what things cost, how to pay for those things. And that was not available. I mean, had accounting in college and after college before business school. But I didn't have it as a journalism student, as part of my regular curriculum. And I certainly, it was not something we talked about at home. We didn't talk about money. I didn't really have that framework besides my part-time jobs in high school and the minimal expenses that I had. then all of sudden, two or three years later when I've got to pay for my own rent, my own food, how do you do all that? If you don't have people that are instructing you, there's, well, besides the internet and the books and so forth, but it's... It's a lot easier to learn from someone and present it lot of different ways than just trying to learn it by osmosis. Totally, Juan, I think it's relatively taboo topic. I I went to private school for so many years and public school, if people know my resume. I have a BFA, a BA, a master's and a PhD. This was not an offered course. I just basic financial literacy. I did a how to write a check class in fifth grade. And I believe that was my only like very direct didactic money thing, very practical skillset. So I think missing. certainly missing from the curriculum and something we all have to do to live in these capitalistic societies. so I think there's one thing about talking publicly about money and there's another thing about like our communities and our people. Right. Do you talk candidly about money with your friends? Would you feel comfortable? There's some friends, it's not a topic they wanna talk about, and I totally respect that. For some of them, they're like, Joan, give me the nitty gritty, give me feedback on how to negotiate these things. And it's a comfortable topic for us. How do you think about money with friends and family, Yeah, it's difficult. So this morning I was talking with a colleague about money because she and I do so much business together and I was telling her like, I pay for a lot of storage, you know, in my business of publishing, we have a lot of graphics that we have housed and of course, a lot of content and we have a big bill when it comes to storage. you know, she and I share a lot of files. So we were kind of comparing notes that way. Colleagues I can talk with about money, no problem, because we're business owners, we have overhead, we hire people, pay contractors, all of that, no problem. Friends, especially women of my generation, generally we don't talk personally about money. My family members. and almost never, right? So we just kind of assume we're all comfortable. No one's asked each other for money, which is great. But it was kind of on our shoulders. You know, when I was little, my dad gave us this poem about earning your pennies. And I thought it was touching at first. And then I read it later, you know, as a professional writer, thinking about what was included and what wasn't included. But between the lines, it was like, it's on you. right? Feed yourself kind of thing. So I mean, I'm from a huge family. That's to be expected. But that's kind of what I grew up with. hard to talk about money with my family. That's not what we were used to. And we just assume all of us have taken care of ourselves. Right. So in my marriage, we talk about it regularly. We have an agreement about what we spend, what we earn, you know, how things are divided. And it's very peaceful. It's part of our goals. do a yearly exercise on our goals on finances, education, faith, professional goals, family goals, fun, travel. Then we do a mid-year checkup. Talking about finances is necessary to make all those other things happen. I would say any book like yours that not only tells you you need to talk about it, but gives you tools to talk about it is going to be really helpful. It's not going to change whether it's uncomfortable for the person to do it the first time, but I think it will help them time and time again to get more comfortable with it because they have the script. They know the process. They know what they're looking for, and they're going to reach the desired outcome. think that's so beautiful and I love how you're talking about it. I hope these are tools. I've heard people like, I want to print it out or like, how do I? Because they're literally worksheets. I think, I mean, when I started talking with different partners about money or like, how much do you make? Do you have student debt? Which is super common for people in my age bracket. And thinking about just like, what goals do you have? And what's the dollar sign on that? Like I love that you and your marriage talk about. What are our goals? What are the things, our values that we wanna align our money with? I certainly do far more of a monthly or depending on the stress of the situation, like just are we on track? Does it match the spreadsheet? How do these goals match up? Q4, frequently vacations and things to see family over the holidays and how we spend on gifts and things. And I really love having that alignment of values and money to match that. Yes. I think it's like budgeting in a different way. Like I don't think about it as like restriction. I think about like is allocation in my mind of what I want for those things. So. You worked hard for it, so be smart with it. I agree. And you know, something else that's a piece of that use of money is the confidence piece. And I was at a... really meet women's event yesterday and the keynote speaker had a topic of just add confidence. And it was really the message of having confidence enables you to act a certain way. think about how you act in confidence. And if you're confident with earning your money, using your money, pursuing your money, donating your money, sharing your money, it's a lot different situation than if you're scared to even talk about it. And the confidence piece, I think, is built up, like I said before, doing it time and time again, but it's also that educational piece. Like, how are the people doing it? What's my style related to theirs? Totally, confidence. I'll admit I have some friends who channel Joan before they go into these contexts, because people think I'm always confident, which is not the case. But I practice, and I bring some energy to those combos. But it is hard, I think, the confidence to turn down things that aren't the right fit. Or like, I, a few years ago, was so pressured to go on a vacation that I hadn't allocated. 6 to 8 grand for, and was already going on a vacation later, and to say no thank you was very difficult. I know 6 to 8 grand may be a lot of money for some of our listeners and not that much money for others, but to know what I wanted to say yes to and to confidently say I love you and this isn't the right fit for me at this point. Not only is it 6 to 8 grand hard cash, it's You're doing something else that is taking you away from other opportunities, whether that's revenue earning or not. It's your mindset. By saying yes to one thing, you're saying no to a lot of other things, no matter what it is. And even though it could have been yes, vacation, rest, quality time, getting you ready to be even more productive and a bigger contributor. after you've had a vacation, you need to just weigh all those factors. But there is a big confidence piece in that about like, I can't do it right now. I'm sorry, right? like, and I had one already scheduled in three months. Or like the timing of when you take those breaks and putting, when do you put on the gas and when do you put it on the breaks and that kind of the balance. a metalsmith and I took a different class in the studio because my teacher was sick. But I had just had surgery, but it was a Memos class and the woman was not, she and I didn't get along as teacher and people sometimes don't. I said, know what, this is really expensive for me. This class is really expensive for me. The tuition is expensive. The materials are expensive. The studio time is expensive. My shoulder hurts and I'm missing work. So I better love it. And if it's not doing all of these things to me, maybe I better say goodbye. And ultimately, that's what I ended up doing. And then she and I are on fine terms now. In fact, she's in one of my classes now. But so that works out. But just then, mean, I think they were surprised by my one student, co-student was surprised that I brought that up. Like, wow, I never thought of it that way. You know, to be in this class, you're giving up all these other things, but you just have to be really smart with your money and your time. one, think this is something, kind of the good girl mentality I was taught I don't know if you've heard this phrase, but you can always leave instead of making someone else feel comfortable, continuing to stay at the party even though you don't feel safe there, whatever the case may in a class where you're like, this doesn't serve my goals anymore, wait a minute, the idea that you can always leave, Like there's always like the agency that we can can choose to leverage even if it's socially uncomfortable that you own your autonomous body and your choices. Yeah. And I would say, again, brings back to the content in your book, not only do you own your autonomous body, you own your mindset, you own your position in your career. You own your goals. So if you are really serious about facing what you need to face, you know, a change in your career, a or, you know, earning a new set of skills, whatever you can do it. You know, you just have to realize you have to take the emotion out of it. Don't be scared. Don't don't self doubt. Don't, you know, berate yourself for not starting sooner. Don't just put the emotions out of it and put your head down and start doing the work. Because I tell you what, if you keep those emotions in there and you try to do the work, the work's gonna be crappy. Or if you keep the emotions in there and you don't do the work, you're gonna be twice as bad off as if you had started, right? So in that conference yesterday, they said, do you know most of the people in their current roles out there are not 100 % fulfilling the required checklist that was on their job description. And she also said that, I don't know where she got that statement, it was pretty broad, but it seems to make sense. But then she also said that a goal that you might have for yourself, if someone is in that goal right now, they might be half as qualified as you. If you sat down and looked at it, qualifications on paper. My point is that you don't have to be that qualified. prepare, do the work, be a little bit confident in it and be flexible about what the outcomes are because generally they're pretty good, right? We want every party to win at these kinds of transactions. absolutely. Well, I think my friend recently told me that job descriptions are words on paper. To really think about the team and the dynamics and the goals of the company, I mean, think that's where network comes in. You fill a lot of these things that we want, ooh, you have this factor, right? And how you actually contribute to the work is so, so crucial. And knowing the person who can help you get in the door. And I think I love that you're like, take the step. start doing the thing, try to remove the emotion out of it or change your thoughts around that, getting support. Every time something happens to me, I'm texting my best friend being like, this happened, this is ridiculous. And she's like, that's ridiculous, keep going. And so having those supports there that I can have different parties supporting me in these different chapters and steps, because they can be a little scary. You're putting yourself out there. It's no joke. got friends I do that to like, holy crap, you know, whatever, but it doesn't change the situation. I mean, you can emote all day long and you still have to make some decisions, right? So sometimes it's better to wait a little bit, let those emotions die down and then act. But sometimes those emotions can be changed from negative energy to positive energy. Okay, I don't like this. I don't like how I feel. I don't like what I think is gonna happen. I gotta do something about it. I gotta read more. I gotta ask my friend what I should do, my mentor. I've gotta go for a walk and think it through, whatever it is, using that negative energy or that uncertainty and trying to channel it for positive results. Well, and that's one of my least favorite chapters in my own book. It's like the results of inaction. And so I say like, in this very European way, how they write five paragraph essays is one paragraph is like, what if I'm wrong in anti thesis, and then reviewing how I'm still right. And so I have this very end of my book of like, let's say you don't take any of my advice. Right. Yeah. stagnant. Let's say you don't apply for those things. Let's say you don't know your finances. You don't expand them. Like all these things are so negative. And then unfortunately, I know people who are holding themselves back. from different thing and choosing not to apply or being so, I have a friend who is so in his mind about being scared about the job market and unfortunately just like continues not submitting things. And I'm just shocked unfortunately he's holding himself back. There's nobody else. And that's heartbreaking to me. And so I think even the small actions, anyway, that chapter was extremely difficult to write. was like, this is more negative than I typically am, but I won't be able to think about the of the AB options that they might see in front of them and how they may want to, know, acknowledge what the other path could look like. So. and that goes back to what we were talking about before about waiting for somebody else to champion you. Well, I mean, it's really good when you do have a champion, but sometimes you don't, right? So, you know, if you don't take a step, that step isn't taken. Really. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm gonna try to ask all the people about this number, if you don't mind. On a scale from zero, not ever, zero to one, to a 10 on the absolutely easy all the time, where would you put yourself on the scale of how comfortable you feel about talking about money, finances, income, financial planning, streams? I think Gabby gave like a seven or eight. Where do you think on this? Yeah, okay. And a lot of it is situational, right? Who am I talking with? Who else is around, right? You know, I don't want to share with everybody. Yeah, seven or eight. I share a story in the book of my friend who like didn't have retirement set up in her early 30s. And I was like, wait, what? And... I've been, since I've been working at the age of 15, putting money in there dedicatedly into my Roth IRA, and it has over $150,000 because of the growth across time. And for it to be a zero versus 150,000 at roughly the same age, you how that pans out, or just it's heartbreaking. I'm gonna just put that out there. Are there specific gold nuggets we haven't talked about that you think people might really, really cherish about the book? Well, I want to bring up the topic of your case studies again, because you were so diverse. I was pleased to read about other entrepreneurs that may or may not look like you, right, or me. And I was glad to hear their struggles, because sometimes I think... I didn't have that struggle and I'm really lucky or I didn't have it yet. I need to kind of prepare for that. But the diversity in your case studies I think is really, really good. I'm lucky enough to be doing business with a lot of people that... Many don't look like me. Many don't speak English as the first language. I'm in the literary space. I'm in publishing. With that, I just am better empowered to help other people when I know what struggles could be out there. So your diversity of case studies not only I think prepare someone who self-identifies with one particular case study, but also they become aware, she becomes aware of other things she could encounter or other people are encountering to help them get through it, right? Or prepare her just in case like, holy cow, I never saw that. That could be coming, right? But what do I do about it now? Right. So that was one of my favorite things, you know. And also I talked about your voice, but that That is so positive and so energizing and so no nonsense. think that's really the whole thread that keeps the whole book together. They're the main thread that keeps the whole book together. I think you just a fantastic job of staying the course and just encouraging your readers to also stay their course. Thank you, well it's really my endeavor to, this person might feel really lonely at this moment and to pretend like I'm the friend sitting next to probably her and saying, here's all these other stories. Right, as you mentioned, here's a Latina's story, here's a black woman's story who has been homeless before. Really thinking about a woman who's let go the same day that Snoop Dogg comes to her restaurant. Right. that was her side hustle, like these very volatile ups and downs. But as you mentioned, I'm really hoping that people can either see a story that they really resonate with or being like, whoa, my situation looks. somewhat or dissimilar to this person's and here's how their journey went from zero to these awesome goals that these people have in their lives. So I'm very hopeful that, especially when I talk about financial independence and so forth, it's not just for white bros in San Francisco, really thinking about how we deconstruct. Time freedom how we really think about our lives in holistic ways So I I think I wanted to make sure that yes, I am a white woman and you know There's intergenerational wealth and so forth, but I'm hoping to democratize this knowledge and these thoughts to really share because I think if it's only you know senior men sharing it with their few mentees it's not gonna be the Impact that I would like to have related to my legacy And you know, something else that I think we talked about earlier, but you know, they may not be right, right? So what they have been taught year after year and generation after generation may not be applicable or appropriate for now. And what you're saying, and I wrote this down to make sure I said it today, is I feel like your material is timeless, but it's written in a timely way, right? It's written in conversation we can hear now. It's in words that we're going to hear now and what we need. And I really think that's the biggest benefit. You know, it's proven and it will help you if you follow it. It's great advice. Thank you're gonna give me chills. Well, I think it's hopefully timely and honors future-proofing, right? Thinking about into the future. And it's not just my own thoughts and opinions. Of course, those are represented, but there's so much research and studies. And I was honestly shocked to look at these data points of like 2 billion LinkedIn. data points reflected in how I talk about networking. And some research from the University of Chicago about money and timing the market quote unquote, versus time in the market. It's like, wow, that is compelling when it's less than 5 % if you invest diversely over a 15-year period, 20-year period. Or I guess I learned things in researching the book myself. and extend that content and stay current. And that's kind of the value of someone following you, following your company, following your team is you have a commitment, again, to your readers, to your followers that you're going to present this information in a way they can use it and they can rely on you. So you have that commitment and I'm certain you will follow through. Thank you. Well, I really appreciate it. It's a deep mission of mine when I think about just like what I give out to the world and my community and so forth. So that's very important. When you, you Bonnie, think we're one of the first people that told me like, this might be for parents. or this might be for a younger demographic than I had originally documented of kind of a woman in 20 to 50 year age range in her career. And I recently got a mom reaching out to me in my DMs asking if this could be appropriate for her high schooler son. And it just blew my mind that, and I've gotten other DMs actually from high schoolers being like, is it a good idea to go to college still? Is it worth it in this age of AI? it just blew my mind and I'm so grateful that this is a very PG book. There's no salacious content I would feel very comfortable handing it to a 16 year old. it just blew my mind that I think you even had future-proofed to whom this book might be important or relevant. And I wondered if you could just speak on kind of who you think this might be for, So there's a saying, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. You probably heard that phrase. I'm encouraged by your international reach. And I think the people that are looking for this advice are going to find you. And I don't think it's a demographic. I do think it's a mindset. And I love, as I said earlier, the financial literacy education that's happening now, younger and younger, grade school. I think that... the perception of what women are and what they can do, how they contribute to the world is changing in such a positive way. And I think mothers especially want to tell their daughters this, and they want to give them materials that support that. And I think, yes, it would be appropriate for a woman to give her daughter, depending if the daughter is ready for it, right? So I can remember my older sister gave me a book on menopause when I was in my early 30s. And I'm not quite ready for this, right? So I'm glad she did. had it for later reading. But. You know the mindset if you've got an 11 year old entrepreneur that's already got 20,000 in the bank from her lemonade and bakery sales positively, right? If you've got a 25 year old that is floundering in her career, you know positively if you've got a 40 year old in another country who just wants to dream about what else can I do? Boy, there's a land of opportunity and technology. I don't even have to live in the United States. I can just you know up my skills and take advantage of the American population, what's happening there, where Joan is, right, what Joan sees. I think it's right for her too. And I already mentioned the mothers, but the demographics of where they live and how old they are, think are irrelevant for the content of this book. I think it's all about mindset. Are you ready? And if so, do it, because you don't have any excuses with good advice like this. Thank you. Well, I think especially for entrepreneurs or this book does go if people haven't read it, you know, from side hustle to if you want to expand that, if you're, you know, lemon stand cookie adventure is getting to five figures, what about six? What about seven figures? Like, what does that scaling potentially look like? Do you need a full-time job if your cookie empire is really taking off? And, for sure. And I recently met an entrepreneur in Eastern Europe who is making a lot of money selling dog balls. She is selling dog balls around the world, mostly to United States, but has built, yeah, yeah, like a doggy squeaky ball. Because you can, because she's an artist in one capacity, and I just love how she's taken it from zero to, I think, at least five figures a month, maybe, right, but this opportunity to, and I talk about in the book, if you have time, if you have a laptop, if you have enough hustle to make it happen, what is stopping you? I don't know that you wanna make a dog squeaky ball empire, you could, but like the fact that there are so many creative ways to take a skillset, a passion into, I mentioned to Gabby, there's a really fancy donut shop relatively near my house. They sell out in two hours kind of donut shop. Or just thinking outside the box of what you could do. So I really hope that... And knowing those finances, She wants to think about revenue versus profit and things like that. But I love you. Joan, to make this into a workbook. And we talked basically about this, where you extend the exercises that you have in the book in a way, online or printed, that they can take time with each of your passages, take really careful calculations in your exercises, put down places that they need to research before they answer some of these questions. I think that it can be a nice easy content extension for this book because people aren't going to be able to read it. Like sit down on page for page one and be in the same chair that night, you know, finishing your last page. That's not this kind of book. It really requires a lot of mental exercise. If you want to get the most out of it, you know, I mean you can breeze through the table of contents and say, wait, I just need to learn about networking right now and go to that that section. but to get the most juice out of this out of this orange you've got to you know be prepared to engage and really you'll get out of it what you put into it. I think about it as a book that you might like get from a friend and then hop on a plane and be like whoa wait a minute I want right I wanted it for chapter four But actually chapter seven and nine has got some cool stuff and something that is maybe a reference on a shelf I certainly have books like that in my life look at my book stand But they have different exercises that as you mentioned like is the student ready? You know four different pieces of the puzzle and there are certainly books that I've opened it. I'm like whoa too much too much. I come back to it later, right, when I am ready to have those conversations about, or like there was one of all about legacy and I was like, I'm only, you know, late 20s. I'm not ready to talk about legacy right yet. But really thinking about, right, this person, the book, meeting them where they're at and hopefully taking them along that journey, right? But it's not a romance novel, they might finish in two hours, you know, fun, a read like that is certainly exploring deeply. Right. Well, it's also an exercise, I think, in what you are wanting for your life. So, you I saw the you flashed the cover of that book, you design your life. But yeah, it's really that's a good book. Design your life. It can be pretty deep. It can be a pretty deep exercise about. choices you're making and again, you what does that mean if you're not making or you're voting to do versus not to do, opportunity costs associated with that. It's I'm hoping that it will be not only a friend to friend kind of book that you pass along, but as you were talking about mothers to daughters, you pass along or in my case, I don't have daughters, but I love my nieces, you know, a book that I would have given to you if you didn't write it yourself. I may have to hand it to my other nieces on the other side. But yeah, it's yeah, definitely you got a lot of information for a lot of different generations and a lot of different industries and a lot of different life paths. Yeah, thank you. Right, I was just talking to someone and he's like, my son needs to read this. Like, you have a section about credit card debt? Like, ooh. I just talked about kind of the normalcy of talking about if people may have made mistakes, people may be in tough situations, how do we get out of it? How do we, right, it's not like a shaming thing, it's like acknowledge and how are we gonna take action type of book. out of it. We have the situation. Let's work on it. Absolutely, because hiding it and trying to push it down only exacerbates the problems, at least when I've experienced things. For sure. Well, Bonnie, if I weren't your niece and you did come across this book and you were sharing it with other folks, what would be the words that you might say It's substantive, it's current, it's necessary. I like that. Well, thank you so much for spending this time with me. Thank you for being on this journey. I have so loved learning from your experience, having these conversations with you. And this one and the ones we've been having for months. I'm just so honored to be able to share this with my auntie. So thank you so much. with my niece Yes. And I wish you all the best. Thank you, Bonnie. Well, and before we get off, I just want to mention the books that you have been writing. Do you want to shout out? Yes, the stoplights book series. this is completely different than the very, very serious books that I've worked on. These are three gift books and the first one is stoplights are for kissing easy ways to keep loving your life, your relationship. The second one is stoplights are for laughing and that's keeping love in your friendships. And the third one is stoplights are for singing and that's keeping love in your family. So it just easy ways. It's a gift book lots of pictures. sure it's not very much writing at all and perfect for just sharing with people that you love in your life. follow me on Instagram or Facebook, Stoplights Book Series, or check out my author's greenhouse page where it has links to all my books. So you can see them there. Some of your books are so sweet and heartfelt. I love the content of thinking of different ways. As you mentioned, texting a friend, you're getting support in these different ways, but also they're visually gorgeous. Your illustrator does an amazing job of these illustrative, like I feel myself in the scene by flipping through them. So congrats to you. SCAD graduate, excellent. She's a digital painter and she just, 156 illustrations and she brought energy to every one of them and I love them. That's fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Bonnie, for your time and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. Bye. And this concludes the podcast episode. If you are interested in buying Your AI Roadmap, the book, please go to yourairodmap.com slash buy, B-U-Y, and it'll take you directly to the Amazon page. It's also in the show notes. Oh gosh, was that fun. Did you enjoy that episode as much as I did? Well, now be sure to check out our show notes for this episode that has tons of links and resources and our guest bio, etc. Go check it out. If you're ready to dive in to personalize your AI journey, download the free Your AI Roadmap workbook at yourairoadmap .com / workbook. Well, maybe you work at a company and you're like, hey, we want to grow in data and AI and I'd love to work with you. Please schedule an intro and sync with me at Clarity AI at hireclarity .ai. We'd love to talk to you about it. My team builds custom AI solutions, digital twins, optimizations, data, fun stuff for small and medium sized businesses. Our price points start at five, six, seven, eight figures, depends on your needs, depending on your time scales, et cetera. If you liked the podcast, please support us. Can you please rate, review, subscribe, send it to your friend, DM your boss, follow wherever you get your podcasts. I certainly learned something new and I hope you did too. Next episode drops soon. Can't wait to hear another amazing expert building in AI. Talk to you soon!